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Author Topic: New - just purchased 2005 Jayco 1206  (Read 10426 times)
noahnsteph
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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2012, 11:44:38 AM »

Given that the exact same engine/tranny combo is rated 5,000# in the Toyota Highlander, I'm confident that people can tow with a Sienna at its rated limits comfortably (well set up with wdh and good packing).

Given that Toyota engineers have assigned a 3500 lb tow limit to the Sienna and a much higher 5000 lb tow limit to their Highlander even though both apparently have the same "engine/tranny combo" it would lead one to reasonably assume that there's a reason for this 3/4 ton difference.  Factory tow ratings aren't suggestions subject to personal interpretation, they're limits.


I would imagine it has lot to do with the lower profile, softer rear end and the 3rd row seats.
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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2012, 02:37:52 PM »

Which is why I feel comfortable telling the OP that he can tow this trailer if he does his homework and stays within his limits.

You're the one telling him it isn't going to work well, though you've failed to demonstrate any particular limit which he won't be able to avoid exceeding.  I'm saying if the numbers work, the numbers work, especially on a vehicle like this with a tow limit that is suspension/chassis/brake related rather than powertrain limited.
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crudad
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« Reply #32 on: February 29, 2012, 08:25:36 AM »

Thank for all the help, again.  I posted this question before and don't think anyone answered. 

Some said my camper weighs 2,900 - 3,100 with all the options minus gear.  The sticker on the side says total weight the PUP can handle is about 3,100.  So, if with all the options it weighs approximately 2,900 by what has been said to me...Jayco is only allowing for 200 lbs of gear?  The guy I purchased from says it weighs closer to 2,500 lbs.  So where is my disconnect here?   

Thanks for all the help.
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manualman
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« Reply #33 on: February 29, 2012, 08:49:02 AM »

Never rely on salesmen or even published numbers.  Take your new trailer and van to a truck scale.  Most freeway truck stops have a CAT scale you can use cheap.  Once you have real numbers, pack accordingly and verify on the CAT scale again sometime.  It will take some trial and error to get right.

As always, if you want it done right, learn to do it yourself.
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« Reply #34 on: February 29, 2012, 08:57:50 AM »

Some said my camper weighs 2,900 - 3,100 with all the options minus gear.  The sticker on the side says total weight the PUP can handle is about 3,100.  So, if with all the options it weighs approximately 2,900 by what has been said to me...Jayco is only allowing for 200 lbs of gear?  The guy I purchased from says it weighs closer to 2,500 lbs.  So where is my disconnect here?   

Go to the Jayco Archive Webpage and you'll find this info for your 2005 1206 ...


FLOORPLAN 1206
Weights   
Unloaded vehicle weight (lbs.)   2395
Approx. hitch weight (lbs.)   315
Gross vehicle weight rating (lbs.)   3150
Cargo carrying capacity (lbs.)   755
Measurements   
Travel length   18'-18"
Campsite length   24'
Approx. travel height   55"
Tank Capacities   
Fresh water capacity (gals.)   23
Other   
Sleeping capacity   7

First, that UVW of 2395 lbs is what a base model 1207 would weigh as it sat at the factory ... your model is most likely heavier because of any options and accessories added at the factory before it was shipped to the dealer.  The difficulty here is figuring out just what may be an option or accessory as manufacturers don't all use the same standards ... for example a spare tire and cover may be included in the base weight by one manufacturer while another will call that an option and not include it in the base weight.  Once at the dealer he would normally add a battery and fill the propane tank(s) so that also adds weight.  Your 1207 is apparently wearing A/C as well so that's another ~ 100 lbs that would have to be added as A/C was not a factory installed option and wouldn't be included in the trailer's base weight ... and the list goes on.  So ... what you really want to do is go weigh this camper so you know exactly what you're dealing with.

It's GVWR is rated by Jayco at 3150 lbs which means you never want to load the trailer so it's GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) is ever more than it's GVWR.  That hitch weight of 315 lbs is unloaded so you can expect it will be much higher than that once the trailer is loaded and ready to go camping - 10% to 15% of GVW is the recommended range but many of us like to be somewhere around 13% to 14% if we can.  If we assume that your GVW will be as much as it's GVWR of 3150 lbs then your gross tongue weight at 13% would be ~ 410 lbs, at 14% would be ~ 441 lbs, both of which are quite a bit for your Sienna when you're also carrying a passenger load as well.  The solution ... load your camper as you would for a camping trip and go weigh it, then weigh it's gross tongue weight to find out if you're in the range you should be ... then you'll KNOW whether the trailer's gross weight is within it's GVWR limit and whether it's gross tongue weight is where it should be or in either case whether you'll have to make adjustments so you do get the numbers you need to make this a safe trailer to tow with your Sienna.

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jeff1890
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« Reply #35 on: February 29, 2012, 09:52:12 AM »

Since you already bought the pup you need to have it weighed like we've been telling you to do. I don't think anyone ever said that this was not doable, but it will be very near the max weights the van can handle. Most of us here agree we don't like to be near the max weight through our experience and  safety reasons. Did you use the Excell spreadsheet I linked. This is what I came up with but I can only estimate thw weights.

Sienna
 GVRW 5246
 Curb wieght 3916(this is no passengers no cargo)
 GCVWR 7827(this is for an 09 model We need the one off of the weight sticker on YOUR van)

Pup
 GVRW 3150
 Dry weight 2395
 Options (my guess at the very least 275#s)these are all options. The fridge and water heater can go either way.
    -a/c 110#
    -2 propane tanks 75#
    -awning 15#-battery 45#
    - heater 45 #
 Actual weight with this is 2670#

I Put this in the spreadsheet I used
 450# for people(3 @ 150#) I don't know your situation
 300# cargo in the van(underestimate)
 300# in pup(underestimate)

Believe me, cargo adds up fast.

Conclusion your
 30#s under GCVWR
 13#s over the gcvw on the van. Giving a 15% tongue weight, but from what others have said this may be more
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crudad
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« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2012, 05:28:06 PM »

The Sienna went through a complete body change from 2009 to 2011.  Here are some of the updated specs:

The GVWR is 5,995 on the Sienna.
Curb weight is 4,275.
GCWR is 8,900.

So if my math serves me right...8900-4275 (curb weight)-2670 (trailer weight w/ options) = 1,955 for tongue weight, passengers, and cargo. 

Take off another 400 for tongue and another 400 for passengers...leaving 1,155 pounds of cargo.  Am I off base here?

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wavery
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« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2012, 06:44:14 PM »

The Sienna went through a complete body change from 2009 to 2011.  Here are some of the updated specs:

The GVWR is 5,995 on the Sienna.
Curb weight is 4,275.
GCWR is 8,900.

So if my math serves me right...8900-4275 (curb weight)-2670 (trailer weight w/ options) = 1,955 for tongue weight, passengers, and cargo. 

Take off another 400 for tongue and another 400 for passengers...leaving 1,155 pounds of cargo.  Am I off base here?


When figuring your tow capacity from the GCWR you are best to subtract the GVWR (5995) from the GCWR (8900). That tells you that the maximum trailer that you should tow would be 2900# if the TV is fully laden with 1345#.

If the TV curb weight is 4275, that allows for 1720# payload for passengers cargo and tongue wt. (which higher than the payload on my 1/2 ton pick-up). I find that just a tad hard to comprehend but if your #s are correct, that's what it is.

You didn't mention the GVWR on the trailer but I'm going to guess that the trailer will weigh around 3200-3600# (fully loaded for camping with a family of 4). Allowing for 12% tongue wt....You should have a TW of around 370-400# (which may exceed your hitch wt rating). 

With a 375# TW, you will have ~1345# for passengers and cargo. If you can keep that wt down to 800#, You will be able to tow 3445# (2900 + 545 that you gain by saved wt.).

using the #s that you gave us, I don't see that you are exceeding any wt rating except maybe the hitch (you will need to check your axle and tire ratings). Although, you may be darn close......... Again, I highly recommend that you take the fully loaded rig to the scales with your gear and passengers on board.

« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 06:50:59 PM by wavery » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2012, 06:21:26 AM »

The GVWR is 5,995 on the Sienna.
Curb weight is 4,275.
GCWR is 8,900.

You don't know what the real world curb weight of your particular vehicle is by just quoting a number out of a brochure or even the owner's manual ... you need to go weigh the vehicle with a full tank of gas and all hitch equipment mounted on it, including the WD head, ball, and spring bars, even towing mirrors or any other additions you've made to the vehicle.  If you don't yet have a WD system allow 100 lbs as an estimate, if you don't yet even have a hitch receiver on your Sienna allow perhaps 50 lbs for that as well.  If you're in the vehicle at the time it's being weighed subtract your weight from the slip reading ... what you'll have is your particular vehicle's real world curb weight as it sits there ready to be hitched to a trailer ... and it may surprise you how different it is from that 4275 lbs you've quoted. Shocked

Once you have this real curb weight subtract that from the vehicle's GVWR and you'll have it's real world payload capacity, not some imaginary number quoted in a brochure.  That's what you're going to use to account for the weight of everyone in the vehicle, all their personal gear, any cargo you may carry in or on the vehicle, and any tongue weight transferred to the vehicle from the trailer.  When it's all added up you don't want the total to exceed the vehicle's GVWR nor do you want to exceed it's GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Ratings), particularly the REAR GAWR which is easy to exceed if you aren't careful.

Also subtract that curb weight from the vehicle's GCWR and you'll then know how much other stuff you vehicle can deal with and not exceed it's GCWR rating ... "other stuff" meaning everything - a fully loaded trailer, people, personal belongings and cargo in the vehicle.  You name it, it ALL counts, and you'd be surprised at how quickly it all adds up. Shocked

Forget numbers printed in a brochure ... as already suggested umpteen times before, quit guessing and go weigh your vehicle and camper so you know what you're dealing with.

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crudad
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« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2012, 05:14:41 PM »

The GVWR is 5,995 on the Sienna.
Curb weight is 4,275.
GCWR is 8,900.

You don't know what the real world curb weight of your particular vehicle is by just quoting a number out of a brochure or even the owner's manual ... you need to go weigh the vehicle with a full tank of gas and all hitch equipment mounted on it, including the WD head, ball, and spring bars, even towing mirrors or any other additions you've made to the vehicle.  If you don't yet have a WD system allow 100 lbs as an estimate, if you don't yet even have a hitch receiver on your Sienna allow perhaps 50 lbs for that as well.  If you're in the vehicle at the time it's being weighed subtract your weight from the slip reading ... what you'll have is your particular vehicle's real world curb weight as it sits there ready to be hitched to a trailer ... and it may surprise you how different it is from that 4275 lbs you've quoted. Shocked

Once you have this real curb weight subtract that from the vehicle's GVWR and you'll have it's real world payload capacity, not some imaginary number quoted in a brochure.  That's what you're going to use to account for the weight of everyone in the vehicle, all their personal gear, any cargo you may carry in or on the vehicle, and any tongue weight transferred to the vehicle from the trailer.  When it's all added up you don't want the total to exceed the vehicle's GVWR nor do you want to exceed it's GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Ratings), particularly the REAR GAWR which is easy to exceed if you aren't careful.

Also subtract that curb weight from the vehicle's GCWR and you'll then know how much other stuff you vehicle can deal with and not exceed it's GCWR rating ... "other stuff" meaning everything - a fully loaded trailer, people, personal belongings and cargo in the vehicle.  You name it, it ALL counts, and you'd be surprised at how quickly it all adds up. Shocked

Forget numbers printed in a brochure ... as already suggested umpteen times before, quit guessing and go weigh your vehicle and camper so you know what you're dealing with.



Ok, so I'm going by manuals currently.  You're telling me it wouldn't be in my best interest to tow this camper with my 2011 Sienna, which is based on published manuals?  But then you're telling me not to trust manuals.  I'm confused.  Have you personally weight the 2011 Sienna with this particular camper? 

I find it hard for you to tell me it won't work when you're going by published information and then when I suggest that I'm using published information...you tell me not to rely upon it.  Which is it? 
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wavery
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« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2012, 07:11:12 PM »

Ok, so I'm going by manuals currently.  You're telling me it wouldn't be in my best interest to tow this camper with my 2011 Sienna, which is based on published manuals?  But then you're telling me not to trust manuals.  I'm confused.  Have you personally weight the 2011 Sienna with this particular camper? 

I find it hard for you to tell me it won't work when you're going by published information and then when I suggest that I'm using published information...you tell me not to rely upon it.  Which is it? 
I think that OZ was merely pointing out that "curb wt" is based on a vehicle as it is estimated to come off of the assembly line. Just like the "curb wt" of the trailer is an estimate of how the trailer comes off the assembly line. If an owner then "Estimates" the weight of contents placed in the camper to come up with some sort of estimated GVW...... it can be quite far off. Most of us that have actually taken our rigs to the scale have come away a bit surprised but more importantly, we have come away "Informed" and can better act accordingly.

There is no doubt that your Sienna will tow this camper. The point is, if you know the exact weight of your rig fully loaded, you are better equipped to make wise decisions. That usually ends up with better results than poking around in the dark and hoping for the best.

The ultimate towing rig should be carrying no more than 80% of any of it's maximum rated capacities. Few of us fall into this category (myself included) and if you do, it's best to know exactly where you fit in this category.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 07:13:08 PM by wavery » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2012, 01:07:03 AM »

I find it hard for you to tell me it won't work when you're going by published information and then when I suggest that I'm using published information...you tell me not to rely upon it.  Which is it?

Get your facts straight ... nowhere, at no time have I suggested that towing this Jayco 1206 with your Sienna "won't work" ... what I've said is that it's an awful lot of trailer for the vehicle when you're also carrying a full passenger & cargo load.  The only numbers you need from your Sienna's owner's manual and the only ones that are reliable are it's GVWR (which should also be shown on the driver's side door sticker), it's GCWR, GAWRs (Gross Axle Weight Ratings), particularly the rear ... any other numbers offered by the vehicle manufacturer (such as curb weight and payload capacity) are meaningless because they don't necessarily apply to your particular vehicle as it sits there ready to be hitched to a trailer.  Knowing the exact numbers is hardly an issue for someone towing a popup with an F350 but in your case, regardless of whether your dealer pal has told you "you'll be fine", there's no doubt you will be towing very close to the rated limits of the vehicle so it's in your best interest to go weigh your vehicle and your trailer as described earlier so you'll know just how close to the various limits you are ... otherwise you are just guessing.  At the end of the day you may decide you are fine with towing near or at 100%, especially if you're towing over relatively flat terrain, stay out of the mountains, and are prepared to slug it out whenever you may encounter heavy winds but having been there, done that myself over many tens of thousands of towing miles I'm not.  It's your choice, do what you want, but there's little value in shooting the messenger. Dead  Good luck with whatever you choose to do.  I'm done.
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2012, 10:01:34 AM »

I find it hard for you to tell me it won't work when you're going by published information and then when I suggest that I'm using published information...you tell me not to rely upon it.  Which is it?

Get your facts straight ... nowhere, at no time have I suggested that towing this Jayco 1206 with your Sienna "won't work" ... what I've said is that it's an awful lot of trailer for the vehicle when you're also carrying a full passenger & cargo load.  The only numbers you need from your Sienna's owner's manual and the only ones that are reliable are it's GVWR (which should also be shown on the driver's side door sticker), it's GCWR, GAWRs (Gross Axle Weight Ratings), particularly the rear ... any other numbers offered by the vehicle manufacturer (such as curb weight and payload capacity) are meaningless because they don't necessarily apply to your particular vehicle as it sits there ready to be hitched to a trailer.  Knowing the exact numbers is hardly an issue for someone towing a popup with an F350 but in your case, regardless of whether your dealer pal has told you "you'll be fine", there's no doubt you will be towing very close to the rated limits of the vehicle so it's in your best interest to go weigh your vehicle and your trailer as described earlier so you'll know just how close to the various limits you are ... otherwise you are just guessing.  At the end of the day you may decide you are fine with towing near or at 100%, especially if you're towing over relatively flat terrain, stay out of the mountains, and are prepared to slug it out whenever you may encounter heavy winds but having been there, done that myself over many tens of thousands of towing miles I'm not.  It's your choice, do what you want, but there's little value in shooting the messenger. Dead  Good luck with whatever you choose to do.  I'm done.

Ok, sorry if I accidentally put words into your mouth.  I'm not trying to be argumentative.  I really do appreciate all of the help that I have gotten.  I will try my best to get to the scales so we are safe as possible.  I will eventually be buying a larger TV so it will alleviate any concerns that I have.  We plan on only camping within 50 miles of our house this summer so we won't be driving long distances and through mountains. 

Is there a manufacturer out there for a WD hitch?  Can I just buy one and install myself or do they need to be installed specific to my camper?
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2012, 01:32:57 PM »

Think I'd be any better off with a 2006 Pacifica?  That's our other vehicle right now and never thought about towing with this.
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wavery
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2012, 02:23:12 PM »

Think I'd be any better off with a 2006 Pacifica?  That's our other vehicle right now and never thought about towing with this.
Same thing......... need to post the vehicle's specs. I think it's about the same though.
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Wayne, Carolyn & Sccamp 14  grandkids  ...Southern California
--------------
'98 Winnebago Adventurer 33
160W Solar Panels, Dual 6V Batteries

EX PU- '04 Trailmanor 2720SL........ 

3X PU '02 Coleman Tacoma

EX- TV - 2006 Chevy Silverado 1500 (ext cab) 157" WB.
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